Ideally, #Fediverse platforms should be able to interoperate at a deeper level. I should be able to browse a #Lemmy #PeerTube or #PixelFed instance with my #Mastodon account, or vice versa.

My understanding is that (some of) the platforms ideated by Mike Macgirvin (#HubZilla and #streams in particular, not sure about #Friendica) have this kind of integration (as well as other nifty features such as nomadic identities). Can we expand support for this to all Fedi platforms, I wonder?

Die Diaspora-Software stellt keinen Export für Kontakte zur Verfügung. Dadurch wird ein Umzug zu Friendica oder Hubzilla unnötig erschwert.

Es gibt jedoch eine Lösung. Mit dieser kleinen Webanwendung kannst du die Kontakte direkt aus dem Profil-Export extrahieren und in eine CSV-Datei schreiben lassen. Die erstellte Datei mit den Kontakten kann direkt in Friendica importiert werden. So folgst du weiterhin deinen Kontakten auf Diaspora und bist mit weiteren Projekten im Fediverse verbunden.

Der gesamte Vorgang findet in deinem Browser statt. Deine Daten verlassen dabei nie deinen Rechner.

Die erstellte Datei kann in Friendica importiert werden. So kannst du deinen Kontakten auf Diaspora weiterhin folgen.

#Diaspora #Kontakte #Friendica #Hubzilla #Fediverse

diasp.fediserve.de/index.html

Das wäre doch was für @Matthias zum testen... ?

"The Fediverse must introduce $FEATURE."

"Um, the Fediverse already has $FEATURE. Hubzilla has had it since 2015/since 2012 when it still was the Red Matrix/Friendica has had it since 2010. This feature is literally older than Mastodon itself. Just because Mastodon doesn't have it, doesn't mean the Fediverse doesn't have it."

"Actually, everything except Mastodon has $FEATURE."

My experience is that the Fediverse outside of Mastodon, and what features it has to offer, is completely incomprehensible to those who haven't used non-Mastodon Fediverse server software for at least six months as their daily driver. Incomprehensible like a four-dimensional hypercube.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #Friendica #RedMatrix #Hubzilla #MastodonCentricity

#FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #OpenWebAuth #Mitra #Friendica #Tootik

Das mit dem #^ ist eine Hubzilla-"Spezialität", die auf Hubzilla selbst nicht auftritt, von der also die allermeisten Hubzilla-Nutzer nicht wissen. @Der Pepe (Hubzilla) ⁂, @PepeCyBs Welt: Das kommt von der Bookmarks-App. Die erzeugt diese Zeichen, die man auf Hubzilla nicht sieht, sonst aber überall.

Das mit dem kaputten Hashtag liegt daran, daß Friendica und seine Nachfahren Hubzilla, (streams) und Forte bei Hashtags die Raute nicht mit zum Teil des Link machen.

Auf Twitter/𝕏 ist die Raute bei Hashtags Teil des Link: #Fediverse. Mastodon, Misskey, all ihre Forks und viele anderen Microblogging-Anwendungen haben das so übernommen.

Auf Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) und Forte ist die Raute bei Hashtag nicht Teil des Link: #Fediverse. Der Grund: Friendica ist kein Twitter-Ersatz, sondern eine Facebook-Alternative. Und Friendica ging schon im Mai 2010 an den Start mit genau diesen Hashtags. Das war, bevor Facebook Hashtags hatte, und das war, bevor es en vogue war, Twitter zu klonen.

Hubzilla ist umgebaut worden aus einem Fork eines Forks von Friendica. (streams) ist ein Fork eines Forks dreier Forks eines Forks (eines Forks?) von Hubzilla. Forte ist ein Fork von (streams). Alles von Friendicas eigenem Erfinder aus der Taufe gehoben. Also haben sie alle Friendicas Verhalten geerbt, auch weil es keinerlei Veranlassung gab, das zu ändern.

Das Problem ist nun: Zum einen rechnet Sharkey nicht mit Hashtags, bei denen die Raute davor statt mit drin steht (das tut Mastodon auch nicht, aber Mastodon kann das einigermaßen abfedern, seit da mal jemand einen Issue eingereicht hat). Zum anderen kann Sharkey augenscheinlich auch nicht damit umgehen, daß irgendwelche Inhalte in irgendwas anderem als Misskey-Flavored Markdown formatiert sind.

Auf Hubzilla sind Posts, Kommentare und DMs intern in BBcode formatiert. PubCrawl, das die optionale ActivityPub-Anbindung zur Verfügung stellt, wandelt den BBcode allerdings in standardkonformes Rich Text Format um, das meines Wissens so auch in der offiziellen ActivityPub-Spezifikation empfohlen wird.

Mastodon nimmt das RTF, wandelt es in HTML um, schickt es durch seinen HTML-Sanitiser, der alles Unliebsame rausschmeißt (vor Mastodon 4.0 hat der Sanitiser noch alles rausgeschmissen und nur noch Reintext übriggelassen), und zeigt das Ergebnis dann zuverlässig an.

Sharkey scheint dagegen nur gebaut zu sein gegen sich selbst (sendet wohl MFM), Misskey (sendet wohl auch MFM), eventuell andere Forkeys (senden wohl auch alle MFM) und Mastodon (kann gar keine Textformatierung erzeugen und sendet daher auch keine). Es scheint nicht damit zu rechnen, daß sich irgendwas an die Spec hält und RTF sendet.

Irgendjemand sollte sich also mal mit Fehlermeldungen an die Misskey- und Sharkey-Entwickler wenden.

Hier mal ein Test (dieser Kommentar kommt auch von Hubzilla): Funktioniert das hier?

• Stichpunktliste
• fett
• kursiv
• unterstrichen
• Code

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Mastodon #Misskey #Sharkey #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Textformatierung #MisskeyFlavoredMarkdown #MFM #BBcode

Permissions, part 2: At channel level

Translated to Mastodon again, for each of the above permissions, your account would have seven or eight choices whom to grant the corresponding permission:

• Anyone on the internet (only available where this makes sense, it's mostly viewing permissions, but it also includes "Can fave and reply to your toots")
• Anyone in the Fediverse
• Either anyone on Mastodon or anyone using ActivityPub*
• Anyone on the same server as you (mastodon.social in your case)
• Anyone who follows you**
• Any mutual followers
• Only those of your mutual followers whom you've explicitly granted that permission
• Nobody but you yourself

**This translates to Mastodon badly. Basically, Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte know three states of connection. Either a Mastodon follow request, that's a "contact". Or a mutual follower, that's a "confirmed contact" because it's listed on your connections page, and you have control over that connection. Or only you follow someone, that's a "confirmed contact", too, because, again, because it's listed on your connections page, and you have control over that connection. The concept of confirmed follower doesn't exist because confirming a connection request will automatically make it a mutual connection. Remember we aren't talking about Twitter followers and Twitter followed, but about Faceboook friends.

The choices on (streams) and Forte, translated to Mastodon, are:

• Anyone on the internet (only available where this makes sense, it's mostly viewing permissions, but it also includes "Can fave and reply to your toots")
• Anyone in the Fediverse
• Any mutual followers
• Only you and those of your mutual followers whom you've explicitly granted that permission

I guess you already know the switch that hides your account from Google and other search engines and the switch that makes your account automatically accept follow requests.

You know that you can mention anyone out of the blue on Mastodon, regardless of whether they follow you or you follow them or not, and they're always notified? Imagine this being notified is optional. And off by default. On Hubzilla, both is the case.

Okay, so, next, you don't allow anyone on the internet to reply to your toots. But there's an option that "half-allows" this: Anyone on the internet can send replies to your toots, even if they don't have any Fediverse account at all. Now it comes: You have to approve these replies. You have a green button that you can click, and the reply becomes visible, and it's added to the thread to which it belongs. Before then, nobody can see the reply but you. You also have a red button, and when you click it, the reply is rejected and deleted.

There are two clear use-cases for this. One is when you want absolute control over who replies what to you. Then you don't allow anyone to reply to your toots, but you activate this option. When someone does reply, you can choose whether to let the reply through or delete it.

The other one is a use-case that doesn't work on Mastodon, namely when you want to run a Hubzilla channel as a fully public long-form blog with a target audience that isn't limited to the Fediverse, and you want everyone to be able to comment on your posts, even without having some Fediverse account and following you first, but you want to keep spam out.

Lastly, there's the option that if you don't allow everyone to see your images and other media at https://mastodon.social/@jasperb/media, these images and other media can still be seen attached to toots by those who are allowed to see the toots that they're attached to.

(6/9)

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Privacy #Security #Permission #Permissions

Permissions, part 1: Introduction

Hubzilla's permission system works on three levels. In Mastospeak, the first level is your entire account.

The second level is everyone whom you follow, individually. Like, you can go to your list of followed accounts and click on them and configure them. Among other things, you can assign to them a set of permissions that, usually, you'll first define. You'll probably have multiple such sets of permissions.

(Yes, this completely leaves out those who only follow you, and whom you don't follow back. Such a thing does not exist on Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte. That is, it does, but you don't have a list of these, and you can't configure these, because they can't do much anyway as long as you don't follow them.)

And the third level is each toot that is not a reply, and then that toot forces its own permissions hard upon all toots that reply to it. If you reply to someone else's toot, your toot will have the same permissions as the start toot with no way for you to change them.

Translated to Mastodon, Hubzilla offers the following permissions:

• Can see your toots when visiting your Mastodon account at https://mastodon.social/@jasperb
• Can send their toots onto your timeline (I'm being serious here, you can literally follow someone and forbid them to send you their toots)
• Can see your profile
• Can see your lists of followers and followed when visiting your Mastodon account at https://mastodon.social/@jasperb
• Can see both the images and other media in your toots and the images and other media you've tooted at https://mastodon.social/@jasperb/media
• Can fave and reply to your toots (those of your toots that aren't replies)
• Can send you DMs

• Can upload images and other files and modify existing files at https://mastodon.social/@jasperb/media
  (because https://mastodon.social/@jasperb/media is not a managed cloud file storage, and the only way to add images or other media there is by you tooting them)
• Can see the webpages you've built on your account
  (because Mastodon doesn't have webpages)
• Can see the pages in the wikis you've built on your account
  (because Mastodon doesn't have wikis)
• Can edit the webpages you've built on your account
  (because Mastodon doesn't have webpages)
• Can edit the pages in the wikis you've built on your account
  (because Mastodon doesn't have wikis)
• Can send you a toot by visiting your Mastodon account at https://mastodon.social/@jasperb and using the toot editor that's present there to send a toot straight to your "wall"
  (because Mastodon doesn't have a wall, Mastodon doesn't have a toot editor on your account page for people who aren't you, and Mastodon doesn't have this entire feature)
• Can like or dislike any element in your profile at https://mastodon.social/@jasperb
  (because liking or disliking things in profiles is not possible on Mastodon)
• Can chat with me
  (because Mastodon doesn't have a chat)
• Can automatically repost my toots through their account
  (because Mastodon doesn't have this feature either)
• Can do absolutely anything on my account that I can, just by visiting https://mastodon.social/@jasperb
  (not possible for a whole lot of reasons)

• Automatically confirm follow requests (yes/no)
• Allow replies on your start toots from
• Manually allow disallowed replies (yes/no)
• Only allow replies on your start toots for so many days (number)
• Allow DMs from
• Allow to see your followers and followed
• Allow to full-text search your account
• Allow non-followed-non-followers to fave your toots (yes/no)
• Be notified about non-followed mentioning you (yes/no)
• Not if at least so many accounts are mentioned (number) (this is spam prevention)
• Receive toots from non-followed if they contain any of these hashtags (same as following hashtags, only that this is one text field and not a bunch of followed "accounts")
• Not if at least so many hashtags are in the toot (number) (again, this is spam prevention)
• Don't allow replies to replies from non-followed (yes/no) (reply guy filter)
• Show a timeline of your own toots (yes/no)
• Add your account to the directory (yes/no)
• Hide your account from Google and other search engines (yes/no)
• Delete toots and their replies from your timeline if you haven't interacted with them after so many days (number)
• Allow toots from your followed accounts that are replies in threads starting with toots from accounts that you don't follow

Events

However, Mastodon has no way to handle the actual event part. Like, you can't confirm your participation in an event on Mastodon. Mastodon doesn't know events. Mastodon has no buttons or other UI elements for interacting with events. And Mastodon doesn't have an event calendar either which you'd add the event to when confirming your participation.

There are also events with no announcement post. For example, birthdays. Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte have a dedicated birthday field in their profiles, much unlike Mastodon. For example, I have a "birthday" in my public profile. When someone on Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) or Forte connects to me, and I confirm that connection, my "birthday" will be added to their event calendar, and they will be notified about my "birthday" every year. This might also work for users on PieFed which has an event calendar, too, although I'm not sure if PieFed understands these birthday fields.

(4/9)

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Events

Groups, part 3: Replying to a thread, and how conversations work

Even if you reply to Carol who has replied to Bob who has replied to Alice who has started a thread in the group.

Within Mastodon, you'd have to mention Carol so she receives and sees your reply, you'd have to mention Bob so he receives and sees your reply, you'd have to mention Alice so she receives and sees your reply.

Conversations on Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte work much more like on Facebook: Your reply will go past Carol. Past Bob. Past Alice. Straight to the group account/channel. From there to Alice because she has started the conversation. And to Bob and Carol because they have received the quote-post of Alice's post. And to everyone else who has received the quote-post of Alice's post.

Now, how does everyone see your reply?

At this point, it's important to say that a Friendica feed or a Hubzilla or (streams) or Forte stream looks vastly different from a Twitter feed or a Mastodon timeline and much more like a Facebook feed. Again, that's because Friendica was a Facebook alternative long before Twitter clones became the default. And Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte are direct descendants of Friendica with largely the same purpose. So no mimicking Twitter's behaviour here.

What does your Mastodon timeline look like? Single posts with no context. And more single posts with no context. You receive a new post, it immediately shows up at the top of your timeline as a single post with no context. You have no idea how many unread messages you have. You want to see the context of a post, you have to click and click and click.

Facebook doesn't show you single-post-with-no-context piecemeal. Neither do Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte. They always show you entire conversations with the top post and with all comments.

Imagine your Mastodon timeline. But instead of single posts with no context, you always see entire conversations with the top post and all replies; that is, you actually only see the last three replies, but you can easily unfold the thread view and see everything.

Imagine whenever someone replies to a post that you already have in your timeline, you automatically receive that reply.

Imagine that you have a little counter of unread messages somewhere. When you receive a new post, the counter goes up by one. When you receive a new reply, the counter goes up by one. But neither that new post nor that new reply is automatically added to the top of your timeline.

Now you click the counter of unread messages. Out comes a list of unread messages. Not the messages proper. A list, including who sent them and, if that's the case, whom they reply to (not as in whom they directly reply to, as in Carol in the above example, but who wrote the top post, as in Alice in the above example).

You can click on any item in the list. Imagine you do. You will leave the timeline view. You will be shown only that one conversation with the top post and the comments. And the view will focus on the new comment and flag it as seen, and the counter of unread messages will go down by one. You can scroll through the conversation and see the entire context in which that reply was posted.

This is what Friendica groups, Hubzilla forums, (streams) groups and Forte groups are geared towards. They aren't group add-ons to Mastodon, and they aren't geared towards integrating perfectly into Mastodon. Remember that Friendica groups are almost six years older than Mastodon itself.

I'm not sure how exactly Mastodon users receive replies from Friendica groups, Hubzilla forums, (streams) groups or Forte groups. One thing is certain: They will not visibly mention you. Another thing is certain: They will send you replies regardless.

I can only guess what happens: You do get replies. But you get them as new posts in your timeline. And you have to scroll down your timeline until you stumble upon them. If you really want to participate in groups, if you really want to see everything that happens there, you'll have to scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll down your timeline until you hit posts which you know you've seen before. You probably won't be notified about these replies.

(3/9)

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Groups #FediGroups #FediverseGroups #Conversation #Conversations

Groups, part 2: Starting a thread

If you want to start a new thread in that group, you have to be a member of the group account. Connected to the group account. In Mastospeak, mutually follow the group account.

Then, if you send a new post that mentions the group account, and it is not a reply to another post, then the group account will automatically quote your post and send the quote-post with your post in it to all its connections (followers).

You know quotes? Quote-posts? Like, quote-tweets? What half of Mastodon is so afraid of because it's used on Twitter only to harass and dogpile people? That's what I'm talking about. Friendica has had these quote-posts for almost 16 years, and never have they been used for harassment and dogpiling, for never has anyone used Friendica as a drop-in replacement for Twitter. Friendica calls them "shares". And Friendica has used these quote-posts in groups for almost 16 years.

That is, within Friendica (and its descendants), one thing is a wee bit different: If you're on Friendica or Hubzilla or (streams) or Forte, you have to send a DM with a special mention (!group instead of @group on Friendica, @!group on Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte) to the group account for this to happen. This automatically activates what's "mentioned only" on Mastodon and makes your post a DM.

But from Mastodon accounts and the like, it accepts public posts with @group mentions. That's because Mastodon & Co. don't know !group and @!group mentions.

(2/9)

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares #QuotePostDebate #QuoteTootDebate #Fediverse #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Groups #FediGroups #FediverseGroups

I'd like to see more of that in the fediverse features like events, groups, moderation, different roles, permissions etc. complemented by secure communication!

Friendica

• federating events
• groups (which are special accounts)
• private groups
• hidden groups
• moderated groups
• groups with multiple moderators on the same server
• a permissions system
• DMs that are actually private because they're covered by the permissions system rather than just handling who receives a message
• etc.

It was made as an alternative for Facebook right away. It was not meant to be a Facebook clone, though, but better than Facebook while also covering all long-form blogging features.

And Friendica is fully federated with Mastodon. You can follow Friendica accounts from Mastodon, and Friendica users can connect to your Mastodon account from Friendica.

Hubzilla

• federating events (in addition to a non-federating CalDAV calendar server)
• groups (which are special channels; Hubzilla calls them "forums")
• various independent options of making groups private that can be combined
• hidden groups, groups with multiple admins/moderators anywhere on Hubzilla or (streams) or Forte
• the second-most advanced permissions system in the Fediverse on three levels (entire channel, individual contacts, content) with 17 different permissions and seven or eight channel-wide permission levels for each
• DMs that are actually private because they're covered by the permissions system rather than just handling who receives a message
• optional additional encryption (only works within Hubzilla)
• optional non-federating articles
• optional planning cards
• optional webpages
• optional wikis
• nomadic (fully portable, decentralised, distributed) identity
• etc. etc.

It is considered a "decentralised social content management system" that can be just about anything you want it to be because it's so modular. Basically, what's incomplete and unstable at best and an unfulfilled promise at worst on Bonfire has been readily available and rock-solid stable for over 10 years on Hubzilla. And even more on top of that.

Red, the Hubzilla precursor, was the first software to establish nomadic identity, something that Bluesky claims to be in the process of inventing from scratch. And that was as early as 2012.

Hubzilla was the very first software to implement ActivityPub. And unlike Mastodon, Hubzilla implemented ActivityPub by the book and largely still does so.

And Hubzilla is optionally fully federated with Mastodon. In fact, this comment that you're reading right now comes from Hubzilla. Like, you're directly speaking with someone on something that has absolutely everything you wish for the Fediverse to have, and that has had all of it for longer than Mastodon has existed.

(streams), Forte

• federating events (in addition to a non-federating CalDAV calendar server)
• groups (which are special channels)
• private groups
• hidden groups
• groups with multiple admins/moderators anywhere on Hubzilla or (streams) or Forte
• groups with moderated posting and commenting (as in posts and comments from new members will have to be confirmed by the moderators in order to be visible)
• the most advanced permissions system in the Fediverse on three levels (entire channel, individual contacts, content) with 15 different permissions and three or four channel-wide permission levels for each
• DMs that are actually private because they're covered by the permissions system rather than just handling who receives a message
• nomadic (fully portable, decentralised, distributed) identity
• etc.

Forte is from August, 2024. It was created by Friendica's creator as a fork of (streams).

Forte was the first software to establish nomadic identity via ActivityPub.

And both are fully federated with Mastodon; (streams) optionally so, but it is by default.

I've made a document with a series of tables which directly compare the features of Mastodon, Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte:

https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/0a75de76-eb27-4149-b708-f20b2f79d392

In fact, this document is on the very same Hubzilla channel that I'm commenting from right now.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Calendar #Events #Groups #FediGroups #FediverseGroups #PrivateGroups #Permission #Permissions

Groups, part 1: Membership

However, Friendica is not a Twitter clone. It's a Facebook replacement, and it has been one long before cloning Twitter was considered the one thing the Fediverse does.

Now, Twitter has followers and followed. As does Mastodon because Mastodon is a Twitter clone.

But Facebook doesn't have followers and followed. It has "friends" which in Twitterspeak and Mastospeak are mutual followers. Thus, it's the same on Friendica.

Friendica doesn't have followers and followed as two fully separate things and mutuals as the state when you follow someone and they follow you back. It has connections which are always mutual.

So in order to really join a Friendica group, you must connect to it (Mastodon: follow it), and the group account must confirm the connection (Mastodon: follow you back).

It's basically the same on Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte. Only that on these three, much unlike on Mastodon and Friendica, the account, the login and the identity are not tied together into one thing. Imagine you could have as many Mastodon-accounts-as-in-identities on one Mastodon-account-as-in-login. Imagine you could switch back and forth between fully independent identities on the same server without having to log out and back in again. Only that Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte refer to a Mastodon-account-as-in-identity as a "channel" and to a Mastodon-account-as-in-login as an "account".

This means that on Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte, a group (Hubzilla: forum) is a channel with special settings. As a group owner, you have one account/login, and on that one account/login, you have your personal channel, and you have your group/forum channel, and you can switch between them while staying logged in.

(1/9)

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Groups #FediGroups #FediverseGroups

Jedenfalls hatte Mastodon in mehrerlei Hinsicht Glück.

Erstens sind schon 2016 die deutschen Medien auf Eugen Rochkos Werberei für Mastodon angesprungen, als Twitter noch gut war. Das hat Mastodon einen ersten riesigen Popularitätsschub gegeben.

Zweitens hat der aber nicht auf das übrige Fediverse abgefärbt, auch deshalb, weil seit damals das Fediverse entweder komplett ignoriert oder als das Mastodon-Netzwerk angesehen wird, also als "dezentraler Walled Garden". Bis heute glaubt so ziemlich jeder Mastodon-Newbie, das Fediverse bestünde nur aus Mastodon, und Mastodon sei das einzige dezentrale Netzwerk überhaupt. Dieser Glaube verbreitet sich schneller, als man dagegen ankommen kann.

Drittens hat Mike Macgirvin, der zum einen schon 2010 Friendica ins Leben gerufen und zum anderen auch schon 2015 Hubzilla gestartet hat, immer gesetzt auf "Wenn du es baust, werden sie kommen". Er hat bis 2023 nie für irgendwas geworben und auch ab 2023 nur zaghaft und nur innerhalb des Fediverse.

Deswegen glauben viele, der beste Facebook-Ersatz im Fediverse ist Mastodon, weil sie noch nie von Friendica gehört haben. Deswegen wissen selbst die Tech-Medien nicht, daß es für Friendica längst freien, quelloffenen, dezentralen Ersatz à la Mastodon gibt, der sogar mit Mastodon verbunden ist. (Übrigens ist auch Hubzilla nicht das Ende der Fahnenstange. Mike hat danach noch weitergemacht und noch andere Sachen rausgebracht, von denen (streams) und Forte heute noch existieren (wobei Forte ja erst 2024 entstand und 2025 den ersten stabilen Release hatte). Die kennt aber endgültig keiner.)

Deswegen genießt auch Bonfire so eine große Popularität auf Mastodon. Die hätte es nicht, wenn mehr Mastodon-Nutzer wüßten, daß Bonfire im Grunde Hubzilla auf Wish bestellt ist. Was Bonfire jetzt versucht, hat Hubzilla vor zehn Jahren schon geschafft, noch bevor es Mastodon gab. Das und noch mehr obendrauf.

Viertens wäre die Zielgruppe für Friendica nicht der Twitter-Nutzer, sondern der Facebook-Nutzer. Aber Facebook ist noch nicht zu so einer unerträglichen Nazi-Bar geworden wie Twitter, so daß der Fluchtdrang längst nicht so groß ist.

Fünftens bekommt man Leute aus Facebook eh schwerer raus als aus Twitter. Twitter ist ein soziales Medium. Da zählt nicht, wer dir folgt, sondern wieviele dir folgen. Und da geht es auch nicht um Kontakt und Interaktion, sondern um das Rauspumpen von Content.

Facebook ist dagegen ein soziales Netzwerk. Da gibt es nicht Followers und Gefolgte, sondern "Freunde", also bidirektionale Kontakte. Und da geht es eben genau darum, mit wem man "befreundet" ist. Im allgemeinen ist man auf Facebook nämlich "befreundet" mit Leuten, die man eh schon von woandersher kennt.

Die typische Hürde, von Twitter nach Mastodon zu gehen, ist, daß da insgesamt nicht genug Leute sind und man einfach nicht die 850.000 Follower zusammenkriegt, die man auf Twitter hat.

Die typische Hürde, von Facebook nach Friendica zu gehen, ist, daß da die eigenen Real-Life-Kumpels nicht sind. Übrigens war das 2007 auch das Argument, weshalb niemand von StudiVZ/MeinVZ oder Wer-kennt-wen zu Facebook wechseln wollte: Die eigenen Real-Life-Kumpels waren nicht auf Facebook, also war Facebook nutzlos.

Sechstens schreckt an Friendica ab, daß die Weboberfläche in den frühen 2010ern stehengeblieben ist. Die von Hubzilla auch, und noch dazu ist die von Hubzilla ziemlich konfus und eine regelrechte Kapitulation vor Hubzillas Funktionsumfang, weil teilweise die Bedienelemente neuer Features planlos mal hier, mal da angeklebt worden sind.

Siebtens gibt es weder im Apple App Store noch im Google Play Store eine App namens "Friendica" oder "Hubzilla". Wenn es keine App namens "Mastodon" gäbe, wäre Mastodon auch nur einen Bruchteil so groß wie jetzt. Überhaupt gibt es einfach mal so installierbare Smartphone-Apps für Friendica nur für Android, nicht aber für iOS, und für Hubzilla gleich gar nicht.

Achtens: Wenn Mastodon-Nutzer von Hubzilla schreiben, dann am ehesten davon, wie kompliziert und wie schwierig zu handhaben es ist. (Wenn Hubzilla-Nutzer von Hubzilla schreiben, kriegt das kurioserweise auf Mastodon kaum jemals jemand mit.) Zugegeben, Hubzilla ist kein Fall von "Website laden, registrieren, loslegen" und schon gar kein Fall von "App laden, registrieren, loslegen".

Neuntens glaube ich, Hubzillas eigene Community ist ein bißchen hin- und hergerissen zwischen "Hubzilla muß populärer werden und braucht mehr Werbung", "vorher muß auf Hubzilla noch dies und das und jenes verbessert werden, damit es tageslichttauglich wird" und "für viele Use-Cases wäre Hubzilla Overkill und (streams) oder Forte eigentlich sogar besser, die sind ein ganzes Stück eleganter und moderner in der Handhabe, und die haben auch mehr Nutzer verdient".

CC: @Andreas

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte

#FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Friendica #Hubzilla #FeedReader

I thought it was possible to embed the video, but I can't figure out how. Does that not work anymore?

#Friendica

Just introduced someone to the fediverse.

He was complaining about Facebook, so I recommended #Friendica.

I wish I had #fediverse (#mastodon #pleroma #akkoma #friendica #hubzilla #iceshrimp #snac #lemmy #mbin #kbin #piefed ) #client , I mean like #ELK #lmst #pl-fe #phanpy #tooty #sengi #pinafore #halcyon . That would allow me to sort my subscription feed & browse sorted feed, to see ONLY relevant posts (on topic updates follow-up's?).
Well, the mastodon feature of "LISTS" tries something similiar by allowing to make a sorted list of people\subscription, sorted by your custom category/topic. But it doesn't include #tags. Each #tag must be browsed separately, individually, manually, and there is no feature of list of tags in mastodon.
Lemmy, mbin, kbin, piefed and other #reddit #forum like #activitypub implementations allow you to have topics-threads, but each thread does not replicate very well across multiple servers/instances. Can't be easely crossposted ( by pinging multiple category-bots). And doesn't replicate & easily-searchable as classic mastodon #tags.

Other things I don't like:
- twitter like reposts. they make you feel you subscribed not to the original "reposter" friend, but to "reposted content" that you never subscribed for. the #f2f p2p architecture of #scuttlebot (#scuttlebutt) kinda eliminates that, they don't have nor show reposts. you see there only original posts, original content, of friends you follow. Kinda helps to slow down the mind from informational overflow. You can opt out to see posts of friend's friends, if you want more. Tags are also supported there.
- threads consist only of information aggretator url sharing in reddit like clones. Without having OP OC like in bbs|AgoraRoad , they just silo you to clickbait to other web sites.

!fediverse@piefed.social @fediverse

@octade
could we have universal AP desktop clients (protocol), same for #Friendica #hubzilla #pixelfed #piefed #lemmy ? And not just masto clients exclusively?